John Mbadi: The day Uhuru Kenyatta threatened to punch me

In his first interview after dropping his bid for the Homa Bay gubernatorial seat, National Assembly minority leader John Mbadi opens up on a number of issues surrounding the move, politics and his 15 years journey as an MP for Suba South.

Mr Mbadi, who is also the ODM national chairman, confirms that indeed there was a plot by Deputy President William Ruto to impeach President Uhuru Kenyatta and as the Leader of Minority, he attended some meetings where this was discussed.

He also recalls how President Kenyatta threatened to punch him in parliament one day when he was still the Finance Minister and the frequent calls he receives from the Head of State since handshake. He spoke to our reporter SAMWEL OWINO

Why did you withdraw from the Homa Bay gubernatorial race?

I was informed by my desire to promote the national agenda. As you saw on Thursday, the party gave Ms Gladys Wanga the ticket and the reason was that the women constituency wanted ODM to support women leadership.

I discussed with my party leader and it became apparent that if the national chairman can sacrifice his ambition because of leadership of women, then so be it. I had a huge following in the county. If you look at the anger on the ground, you can clearly see I had captured the imagination of the people.

I have supported my party leader since1992 and he told me that he wants to work with me at the national level. I’m happy that I took the risk for the sake of Raila. This will be the first time since 2007 that I will not seek an elective seat. 

Do you think this is how you would have imagined your political career would turn out?

I have not bowed out of elective politics because up to last week I was still in the race. But in politics, nothing is predictable and you must have an open mind. I have been elected for three consecutive terms, a no mean achievement. I know my supporters, especially my constituents, are disappointed and angry because they have never imagined that there would be politics in that area without Mbadi in the mix. 

Were you coerced to drop your bid for? 

Not really. If I didn’t agree, I would have said so and I had options of either leaving the party or ranting and yelling and going away. When I became the chairman, I knew one day the interest of the party will override my interest.  I will one day write a book on how my party leader was even more emotional than me about the decision.

Do you think Wanga is the right candidate for the job?

That is now in the past; she is the ODM candidate and that is what matters. The people of Homa Bay will judge her based on her performance.

Let her get into office and we see what she is capable of doing. My take is that the people of Homa Bay got a raw deal in the first 10 years of devolution. I have said that even before my party leader. I, thus, expected to reform that county because I have the ability to do that.

I have political and managerial experience, knowledge and character because I’m not driven by the desire to amass wealth. So those people getting into office, kindly note that the people of Homa Bay are yearning for better services. 

Now that the party has settled on Wanga... will you offer unwavering support to her?

That is immaterial because even if I don’t support her, she is the ODM candidate. My time is going to be devoted more at the national campaign stage.

What position have you been promised should Azimio form the next government?

That is a discussion between me and my boss.

Reports indicate that some powerful people around the ODM party leader piled pressure on him to convince you to drop your bid. What’s your take on this and who are these people?

My party leader makes decisions after intensive consultations, thinking and reflections. I’m sure he reflected on this. He told me about the national women constituency and his belief in women leadership. It only makes sense to give them a chance.

Remember it is only the presidency that is missing in the closet of ODM, we have gotten the seat of Homa Bay and will get it again and again. So the biggest price is the presidency that if ODM does not get it now, then it will take a while before it gets it.

Is consensus working or do you think it will cost ODM many seats?

We are really trying but it’s still having challenges. One of the biggest challenge is the authenticity and acceptability of the opinion polls. Sometimes you see inconsistencies in the polls but we must have the basis for consensus building.

We are running away from conducting party primaries because of the challenges we have had before like lack of enough human resource. Look at IEBC, for instance, with all the resources availed to them, they still get it wrong in some places. So how do you expect a party with meagre resources to succeed in nominations easily? But in future, consensus will be the order of the day and it will be embraced more by our members

How prepared is ODM for its primaries and how will you deal with the expected fallout?

We are actually going on with party primaries. This consensus and direct party ticketing is part of primaries. But the actual universal suffrage by the party members will be done and the board is fully prepared for it.

In areas where the primaries will be done, we have acquired electronic gadgets.

The party is yet to shed the violence tag. Just last week, two journalists were beaten by goons at Orange House with one seeking refuge in your car... when is the party going to deal with this monster?

The incident was unfortunate and I want to apologise to them because they are all my friends, that is why I offered my security to protect them while the meeting was going on. We are investigating the matter and as a party, action is going to be taken.

A party that is preparing to take over government cannot tolerate goons. We are trying to reform our overzealous supporters. There is a programme we have for them which will be rolled out soon. But we are not going to tolerate violence on journalists. If there is any kind of displeasure on their work, there is a channel to follow including informing the employer but not resorting to violence.

The issue of direct ticket has caused a lot anxiety in the party... are there plans to hand tickets to certain aspirants? 

We do direct ticket in two folds. First, where there is a single candidate and second, in instances where you are the only candidate but you are not stronger while the opposing candidate is stronger.  So we will poach the stronger candidate and give him a direct ticket and talk to the weaker candidate.

There are fears that ODM is likely to lose its dominance due to the mushrooming of fringe parties such as DAP-K that are taking advantage of Azimio coalition to shine…your comment?

Definitely we are worried about this. When you are in a bigger party like ODM, you can’t just be in your cocoon and think that everything is right because then you will be politically naïve.

As ODM, we are aware of the danger caused by our friends in Azimio; they are likely to eat into our numbers in Parliament. Azimio is a home but we have our respective houses. So ODM must protect its house and that is what we are doing in Western.

We are bringing back most of the people who left and joined other outfits. We are doing the same in Kilifi and Kwale. At the end, we will be happy if our partners get numbers because we are working together but as ODM we must also have numerical strength 

Are there regions ODM wants zoned? 

No. The issue of zoning has been overtaken by events.

How many members did ODM register at the close of March 26 and how many aspirants for various elective positions has the party received?

I don’t have the statistics because I was busy with my campaigns in the county but I know we have so many aspirants who want the party’s ticket.

There have been claims and counter accusations that DP Ruto plotted to impeach President Uhuru Kenyatta after the protracted 2017 polls. As the Leader of Minority in the National Assembly, were you aware of this plan and what role were to play?

Yes, I’m aware there were such plans but I can’t go into details. But it is something we discussed as a party whether it was a viable option for us.

Which role was ODM to play in the process?

Of course if such a motion was to come to the House, it would have emanated from the opposition and ODM was to champion it then supported by Ruto allies. So all this was planned but again we thought as a party whether the decision was the best for us.

What was being offered to ODM in this plot?

There were talks that after the impeachment, Ruto was to be the President and Raila his deputy.

Has the frequency of communication between you and President Kenyatta increased after handshake?

The President called me for the first time after the handshake. Just the other day, he tried to call me to discuss the supplementary budget but couldn’t find me, so he called my wife. We have a cordial relationship.

When there is discussion around budgetary matters, he calls me as the Leader of Minority. He explains himself and I also tell him my views. The beauty with President Kenyatta is that he is a listener contrary to what people think.

He respects me on matters of budget and finance. He has been a Minister for Finance, so he understands how things work. When there is a stalemate on the budget, we talk. 

How has Parliament changed in the last 15 years?

A lot has changed. I see the current crop of MPs not taking their legislative work seriously. You find members taking two to three years without understanding how Parliament operates. Also, many don’t come to Parliament.

We are 349 but you find sometimes getting a quorum of 50 is a challenge. That was very rare during my first term because members took their legislative work seriously. Nowadays, people don’t read or research. Members just contribute to a debate by reading the memorandum of a Bill while others just listen to others then stand up to also speak.

In my first term, people prepared notes, researched and were competing to speak. So there was quality debate but this is now lost because of the casual way members take their work.

Another thing I have noted is that nowadays members are too selfish. If we start debate on budget for instance, they are just looking at what is going to their constituencies and not the bigger picture of the nation.

Which are the most difficult times you have encountered in Parliament?

The first was December 18, 2014 during the debate on the Security Laws (Amendment) Bill. The government was pushing very unpopular laws and taking us back to 1982 yet there was little we could do at that time.

The debate degenerated into a physical fight. The country did not see everything that happened but I can tell you it was so bad. The sergeant-at-arms and police officers in Parliament took sides. People tore each other’s clothes. I still have scars from the injuries I sustained that day. 

The second instance is when I was supporting the 8 per cent VAT on petroleum products, a position that I had initially resisted but accepted after it was reduced from 16 per cent due to the discussion we had with the President where he explained the conditions that donors had given.

What is your relationship with President Kenyatta? 

I recall one time I challenged him on the floor of the House to declare his interest in the financial sector while we were debating matters of capping interest rates. At that time he was the Finance Minister. So I told him that his family owns a bank and he must have a direct interest on the matter which he must declare. He got worked up but was forced by the Speaker to declare the interest. So he stood up and said, “our family own banks, so what?”

Then after he sat down, he pointed at me and said “if I meet you outside the corridors, I will punch you”.

I got scared. So when we walked out, I tried to avoid him but he waited for me in the corridor. I was afraid that he was going to beat me.

“Mbadi come here”, he called me. When I went, he embraced me and started laughing. From then, I got a different impression of him. He doesn’t hold grudges and probably that explains why the deputy president is treating him so badly.

What kind of politician is the DP?

He is a person I don’t understand apart from what I see in the media. I interacted with him briefly in 2013 when I wanted to be the chairman of PAC and he promised to call me later that evening but up now I’m still waiting for that call. I don’t even have his number.

Do you think Raila and Ruto’s political paths can cross again?

In politics you can’t rule out anything. Who knew Raila would shake hands with Uhuru? 

As the Minority Leader, are there instances you sought the help of DP allies in the floor of the House?

I can’t recall but some of his allies like Duale and Kimani Ichungwa are my friends. Duale is my good friend. Though we don’t talk regularly, he is someone I respect. He is someone who called me sometimes and asked whether I was going to the constituency over the weekend and he would hand me Sh200, 000

Have you ever sat down with Duale when things were hot and you managed to resolve?

Yes. A number of times. As a matter of fact, the working relationship I had with Duale was much better than the one I have with the current majority leader Amos Kimunya. I find Duale more outgoing while Kimunya is an introvert.

Duale was more consultative and proactive. He knew something that would rattle me and would call in advance to explain. Kimunya most often just ambushes me on the floor of the House with some decisions.

Certainly,  it was easier to work with Duale than Kimunya. Kimunya is very intelligent, you know he is CPA and PhD holder but Duale has a better way of reaching out to people while Kimunya likes keeping to himself.