Since 2002, Amani National Congress (ANC) leader Musalia Mudavadi has been touted as a compromise candidate for the presidency. In 2013, he inched closer to being President Mwai Kibaki’s heir when the latter’s allies fronted him for the top job only to be shortchanged at the eleventh hour. Today, Mudavadi is the first politician to be nominated by his party for the 2022 presidency contest. Mudavadi spoke to Sunday Nation’s Justus Ochieng on his ambitions”. Here, excerpts:
Q: You unsuccessfully contested the presidency in 2013. You are the first Kenyan party leader to be given a go-ahead by your party to run for the seat in 2022. What do you have to offer the country?
From where we sit the most challenge Kenyans are facing is the economy that is on the decline accelerated by the Covid-19 pandemic. We have seen massive job losses, a lot of closures of our economy which is also reeling under heavy public debt.
Going forward, the livelihoods of Kenyan people will definitely be threatened and therefore the government that comes in must be that which will ease pressure under urgent attention to these issue of economic recovery.
We need to bear in mind that we are also dealing in an environment where there is a lot of global recession hence international assistance will also be limited.
That is why I have been emphasizing that our agenda is one – economy, two economy and three economy.
It is a government that will be focused on the welfare of the Kenyan people. It is not going to be just about personality.
We need to know that the constitution already provides parameters through which a government operates. But we want a government that will enjoy broad national appeal.
Q: Do you think the Country is headed in the right direction? Kenya is increasingly getting polarized. What do you think should be done to get it back on the rails?
A: What is important is that Kenyans must come to appreciate that their choices mater. Change must also come from within.
We have seen the consequences; some of our county governments have collapsed because people voted through being mesmerized by the show of business without looking at the content.
My appeal to the Kenyan voters is that take time, look at the content that the person is presenting rather than being swept away by simple goodies.
I also want to appeal to the fourth estate to realize they play a key role in shaping the destiny of this country.
They should not try and drive us into a narrative of saying there are only two alternatives in this country.
Q: You have been vocal against the heavy borrowing by the government. Last Week the president was in France over the same, what’s your view on this and how can it be addressed?
ANC through one of its members – Nambale MP Sakwa Bunyasi, has been pushing for a debt management bill.
I think it is quite advance – has gone to the budget committee, finance committee and will come to the full house so that there can be better management and enhance transparency in our debt related. Borrowing happens all the time but you must do it after a clear assessment of the risks involved and the ability to repay. What worries us most is particularly the commercial debt.
Concessionary borrowing as an example will be a loan where you can repay at 2 percent interest rate and maybe repaid over a 30 year period such that it is not too heavy to the economy.
Commercial loans which is the biggest worry are those borrowed probably at 7 percent interest rate and you have about 15 to 20 years to repay. These are the dangerous loans.
Q: It is on record that the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) came into being during your tenure as Finance Minister. Do you think that the State agency is executing its mandate properly?
A: KRA is trying its best but recently we have seen that they are constantly missing their targets. They are missing their target because the government has over committed itself so that a lot of money has to go to the payment of loans.
The economy which is depressed cannot generate enough money to allow government perform all its programs.
That is why businessmen and businesses are crying foul that they are being over taxed. Improving economy is going to be the window to start unlocking the deadlock.
Q: You recently held closed-door meetings with Narc Kenya leader Martha Karua, Makueni Governor Kivutha Kibwana, former Gatanga MP Peter Kenneth and former Head of Civil Service Dr. Sally Kosgey. Is there a coalition in the offing between you and them?
Kenyans will continue to meet from time to time to exchange their ideals, after all we are all Kenyans so we have to talk to each other.
Legally, that coalition still exists. It may not be active but it is in existence.
At the moment none of the coalition parties has written to the registrar to withdraw and then law does not allow you to join another one.
Going forward one will need to be very careful with the kind of partnership you are going into so that the degree of deceit and betrayal can be minimized.
There must be stronger emphasis on principals that you can easily cooperate with so that there is some reasonable commonality so that we are not seen as entering coalitions just for the sake of clumping numbers together. This has been the problem - putting ethnic blocs together.
Q: What is your stand on BBI and the much-touted proposed referendum? Which system of governance do you think suits Kenya most: Parliamentary, High Breed or Presidential?
I did make presentations to the Yusuf Haji committee at KICC and basically emphasized two key issues.
We must always ensure there is clarity in our laws by moving away from ambiguous laws. We must be very clear where the back stops. If we have too many multiples of power, we must have clarity on the parameters of the modus operandi not to plunge the country into confusion.
Secondly, the recommendations that come must carry favour with majority of Kenyans by ensuring their welfare is catered for.
A: IEBC remains the elephant in the room. We have seen the chairman of IEBC lament that since the last election, they have been under-funded and are dogged with pending bill. The level of working on improving on the result transmission system and so forth as directed by the Supreme Court has not been fully achieved. Because of the economic crisis, Treasury has not made any allocation for referendum. So a lot of questions will have to be answered as to how the referendum can be financed. Corrective measures to guide IEBC must also be put in place since Kenyans want to see an institution that will ensure their will is properly reflected at all times.
Q: In politics, what are you doing to ensure ANC has a nationwide appeal? What strategies are you putting in place to ensure ANC’s numerical strength is boosted in 2022?
A: We are consolidating and spreading our outreach. We have been operating under a fairly tight condition because of the Covid-19 pandemic but we are making outreaches. I have been to parts of Central Kenya, Rift Valley and Nairobi making interactions among other regions. God willing, in the course of next month we will resume the visits.
Q: Your party ANC has recently witnessed defections by your key lieutenants; ANC former Secretary General Barrack Muluka as well as your Kibra candidate in 2019 by election, Mr Eliud Owalo have all trooped to Deputy President William Ruto's side while others like nominated MP Godfrey Osotsi and Kakamega Senator Cleophas Malala (until recently) have been working with Raila Odinga. Why is this happening? Why are they leaving your party? Is there something cooking between you and Ruto? Under what circumstances would you work with him?
A: Only Muluka and Owalo have resigned from ANC party, the others is perception. For record purposes, Owalo was never been a party official but just a candidate in Kibra. Period!
Malala on the other hand has not quit ANC, only a few days we attended an event with him while Osotsi has just been having a tiff with ANC.
Q: Since 2002, you have always been touted as a possible compromise candidate for the presidency, how do you intend to shake off this tag which is a double-edged sword as the clock ticks towards 2022? Why do you think you are always considered a safe pair of hands?
What Kenyans look for at the end of the day is stability of the Country and not a vindictive individual.
They need someone who will give them a fair and equal chance and respect the rule of law and give the country the right focus.
Others quickly fall prey to ethnicity, name calling, profiling - whether hustler or dynasty.
I only try to guide Kenyans on issues whether economic issues I address them, whether its education, policy decisions on agriculture or other sector I address them.
Q: The late Vice President George Saitoti once said; “there comes a time when the nation is more important than an individual.” Under what circumstances would you put the nation first and shelve your presidential ambitions?
But in the kind of situation we are in now, Kenya needs decent, honest, capable and committed leadership.
Q: Your Nasa counterparts - ODM and Wiper have insisted that the coalition is dead despite its existence at the Registrar of Political Parties. What’s your take about the Nasa coalition? Would you wish that it is revived going into 2022 elections?
A: I can say without blinking my eye that I was instrumental in driving the formation of the National Super Alliance. When I did it we all made sacrifices.
Nasa caught the imagination of millions of Kenyans and therefore the fate of Nasa is something that I know hurts a lot of Nasa supporters.
Many feel that they were abandoned along the way. So you find that as much as there is concern that Nasa is not active, but the constituent parties by not quitting may also be admitting that injury has been done to the Nasa support base.
Going forward, ultimately we are likely to see different formations as we get closer to 2022.
Maybe when that time comes, when those who want to take different turns may quit Nasa and enter into new formations.
When they look at the levels of unemployment, the pains that have been caused, just as much as Jubilee may have failed as they are on the driving seat, there are also feelings that Nasa as opposition team that was supposed to be offering alternative solutions may also not have achieved its dreams.
Q: ODM says it owes its Nasa partners nothing arguing that no clause in the coalition’s agreement, requires them to share funds with their partners. What’s the true position on this?
A: Sometimes people take advantage when others don’t have documents for reference. In reality, all the Nasa documents were submitted to the registrar and each party has got copies.
So you are better of just say we are not ready to share the funds rather than say there was no agreement. We have provided the agreement to anybody who wants to know the truth and they have all agreed with us.
It clearly states that funds due to the party from which the coalition presidential candidate has been chosen attributed to the presidential vote shall be shared equally among the coalition parties.
A: The president is for all Kenyans. He interacts with Kenyans in different ways. We respect each other with Raila. I don’t think we have shown disrespect against each other. We may disagree in opinion and that’s how it is.
Q: There have been claims that Kakamega Governor Wycliffe Oparanya and Devolution CS Eugene Wamalwa are seeking to topple you in Western Kenya. What’s your take on this?
A: This is one of the strangest things I ever talk about. Toppling me from what? I have been very clear that my interest is to seek the presidency of Kenya and that is what is recognized by the Constitution. Not leadership of Western.
Q: Former Trade Minister Dr Mukhisa Kituyi has hinted that he might also be running for Presidency in 2022. In addition to you and Bungoma Senator Moses Wetang’ula, that makes it three the number of presidential candidates from Western Kenya. Don't you think such a crowded field diminishes your chances of clinching the Presidency?
A: They may be better placed to answer about their future but with that as it may, I have always maintained that making a declaration or contesting for a political seat is once constitutional right. If there is more than one declaration it does not necessarily mean voters will be divided.
We have seen many cases even in 2013 from Central Kenya Uhuru, Martha Karua, Paul Muite contested but the voters made their decision. Even Raila contested and Stephen Oludhe contested in 1997. So we leave this to the electorate to decide and make an assessment on the more promising candidate.
Q: Eliud Owalo recently said during a vernacular Radio talk-show that your strategies are just on paper and that they cannot be actualised. What’s your take on this?
A: There is usually a framework for implementation of every proposal. Some are pushed through parliament and that is why I said earlier that ANC through Nambale MP Sakwa Bunyasi has been pushing for a debt management bill to save the country from the economic crisis.
Q: What’s your take in regards to the stringent measures announced by the National Security Advisory Committee (NSAC) on Wednesday to ensure safety of citizens in the wake of two deaths witnessed during DP William Ruto’s visit to Kenol in Murang’a County last Sunday?
Why did these two young men have to die? Were they freedom fighters, were they fighting for stolen elections, were they fighting for salary reviews through their trade unions? None of these. These are young lives lost because of high level of irresponsibility amongst the political class.
We should not allow it to go on. Kenyans should never lose a life because of their political choices.
We came out of that crisis, we saw it at its peak in 20027-08, a bit of it in the repeat election of 2017, Kenyans have been to the ICC, surely, and we cannot start the situation where we are building tension again.
Let us be clear, the law must be followed. I don’t think anybody’s constitutional rights are threatened when an advisory is made or when order is being restored. It is not about blocking politicians but restoring order. Investigating agencies should look at the Kenol chaos and deaths carefully and bring the culprits to book. They must establish what lured these boys into the centre of these violence, was it handouts? Were they hired mafians, these should be investigated and condemned by all and sundry.
Kenya belongs to all of us. We must operate within the rule of law by putting the lives of ordinary citizens first.
My appeal to the very key player called the media; help Kenyans focus on issue based dialogue and debates. There are other Kenyans with very compelling ideas and suggestions, don’t black them out.
