In the second part of the interview with Mathira MP Rigathi Gachagua, an ally of Deputy President William Ruto and former personal assistant to President Kenyatta, the lawmaker exposes intrigues in Kenya Kwanza alliance, his court cases and Mt Kenya politics in an interview with Walter Menya .
You and lawmakers from Mt Kenya allied to the United Democratic Alliance (UDA) have often said that Orange Democratic Movement (ODM) leader Raila Odinga is unsellable in the region yet he is being received well. Do you still hold that view even after he has been endorsed by President Uhuru Kenyatta?
I live in the region. Uhuru Kenyatta is our President and the people are loyal to him. He had 10 years to lead them after they voted for him. All they want is a quiet exit like President Mwai Kibaki. Kibaki is celebrated in the region and country. Even after doing such a good job, even when people were very happy with him, he never sought to give direction on how they should vote. The President knows that and people are unhappy about rising food and fertiliser prices, evictions and demolitions. He cannot give direction to Mt Kenya people. It is his democratic right to express an opinion. But I do not see that opinion translating to a direction.
We were told that he would give directions and everybody would change during the Sagana Three summit. People of the mountain respect President Kenyatta and expect him to retire peacefully, not dictating to them who they should vote for. Some of us have been intimidated for three and a half years but are still strong. The few who will succumb to intimidation will lose.
Do you really think Odinga will get the same number of votes he did in 2017 when the President was campaigning against him, now that they are together?
I don’t know what he will get from the mountain but I know his votes are not what they were. He has lost the Coast. The directive that goods be transported on the standard gauge railway and be kept for clearance in Nairobi has destroyed businesses in the Coast.
He lost (Amani National Congress – ANC – leader Musalia) Mudavadi and (Ford Kenya’s Moses) Wetang’ula in Western. He has lost votes in Kisii and Nairobi. Even if he gets 15 or 20 per cent from the mountain, they will not be enough to replace the areas he has lost in other parts of Kenya. We will win by more than 70 per cent
In other words, Deputy President William Ruto is unshakable in the mountain no matter what Uhuru does?
The DP is unshakable and is the mountain’s candidate of choice. We are looking at 90 per cent in Mt Kenya. Jubilee is holding its meetings in tents in the mountain where money exchanges hands. Without money, no one will turn up at those meetings. Everybody is looking for money. There is a saying in my community that you do not let the elephant die with its tusks. We have told our people to attend Jubilee meetings and get the money. Make hay while the sun shines.
The 70 per cent you are talking about for UDA and Ruto is an unprecedented figure. How will you achieve that?
This election is not about ethnicity but an agenda. People across the board will head to polling stations. The whole nation will vote for us. Mt Kenya people have been accused of not voting for other communities in the presidential races but it will be different this time. People of the mountain will be respected after this election. They will be seen as dependable, having integrity and capable of keeping a promise.
There are those who argue that the UDA wants to continue the Mt Kenya-Rift Valley hegemony. Your take?
Who started that narrative? President Kenyatta himself. He had the opportunity to make it right and give room for people from other regions in 2013 and 2017. Why has he suddenly remembered it when his final term is almost ending? He would have stepped down and freed the country.
Perhaps he would have gone a little further, beyond just saying it is wrong for people from two regions to dominate the presidency and say it is wrong for people from one family to lead the country. Now he is going for the son of a former vice-president. That is how they lied to Mudavadi but he became aware of the plan.
If UDA wins, what will its relationship with the President be?
We will continue being friends with President Kenyatta. Our differences are political, not personal. Our party leader has said President Kenyatta should be left to enjoy his retirement and be accorded the privileges of a retired head. I have nothing personal against the President. In fact, I look forward to visiting him when the political season is over.
The ongoing court cases against you show that you are a man of financial means. What is your net worth?
I do not know. A person does not talk about the number children, animals and the wealth he possesses in our community. It can haunt you.
I am a junior elder. You don’t say give such details. Young people can splash their money around but I cannot. I do not want to upset my people. But I would like to say this: there are cases against me, and everybody knows they are trumped-up.
At no time, in the years I have worked with President Kenyatta has he ever asked about my wealth. He was President between 2013 and 2017 and had all the chance to ask the Directorate of Criminal Investigations to check on me. He only asked for my source of wealth after we differed and we have been in court since. The case was filed in August or September. There is no evidence to support it. Everybody knows I was threatened with cases if I refused to toe the line.
I am okay. They wanted to block my salary account but the courts rejected that, demanding to know how my monthly pay was connected to crime. The courts rightly said money from Parliament could not be proceeds of crime. Even money in the frozen accounts came from the government. How can government money be proceeds of crime yet I was paid for work done? It is all harassment but I am fine.
I cannot starve for I have a very supportive wife and children. They wanted to cripple me financially, expecting me to kneel and beg for the reopening of the accounts. I cannot kneel before anyone. I only kneel before God. They demanded that I explain the source of the money. We have done that. I am sure our justice system is good and fair. I can assure you that I am not worried.
Some political pundits have predicted another handshake irrespective of who wins the presidency in August
Our target is a 70 per cent win. With that, Odinga will never show his face again. We do not want a handshake. The (March 9, 2018) handshake between Odinga and the President cost the government the Big Four Agenda.
We do not think another handshake will do this country any good. That handshake created more divisions in Kenya. How do you reconcile the fact that you are building bridges with Odinga and burning bridges with Ruto? The handshake has been a failure. It has been very detrimental to the development of this country.
There are those who said Mt Kenya was to benefit greatly from the Building Bridges Initiative (BBI), yet you were opposed it.
The creation of more constituencies and more money to counties were lies. They wanted to created positions for Mudavadi, Wetang’ula,(Wiper Party leader Kalonzo) Musyoka and Odinga. They would be President Kenyatta’s stooges. Things meant for the mountain would still have come without constitutional changes.
We brought a bill to Parliament to increase allocations to counties from 15 to 35 per cent. The truth is we do not need BBI. Health should be the priority, not BBI. Extra constituencies are unnecessary. The electoral agency starts reviewing boundaries every eight to 12 years. We do not need the BBI for that.
You cannot bring everybody in government. Bringing everyone in government is dictatorship and a recipe for anarchy. We need a strong opposition. There is state capture because the opposition is quiet. Food prices are rising. The price of a bag of fertiliser is as high as Sh6,000 but the opposition cannot talk.
There is nobody to talk for the people of Kenya. The inclusivity they are talking about is like the unhealthy one-party state that this country had in the past. Kenya will be very unstable. If you think you cannot be a president, run for a member of the National Assembly, Senate or ward.
Azimio and President Kenyatta say Kenya Kwanza and Ruto will condone corruption if they win in August.
If he had known Ruto was as corrupt as he keeps saying, why did he have to get him to help win a second term? Having been with Ruto for five years, why did President Kenyatta not opt for another running mate in 2017? You do not use somebody to get what you want and then throw him out.
I don’t know what has been discussed about that but when I go round the country in meetings attended by Mudavadi and Senator Wetang’ula, that is what the public says. I don’t find anybody having a problem with that. Ruto is my candidate.
Even as we go around the country as Kenya Kwanza, that is what is the general mood. I’m not sure the details have been put on paper. We are engaged in public participation, which will form part of the decision.
From where we have gone and what we’ve done, that appears to be the case. We have been to more than 70 meetings since Mudavadi and Wetang’ula joined Kenya Kwanza. But time is the fourth dimension. It sorts everything out.
I don’t think so. I am grateful to Mudavadi and Wetang’ula. Our point of convergence is the economy. We were brought together by the need to revive the country’s economy. I know Mudavadi has sacrificed a lot for Kenyans. The same goes for Wetang’ula.
I don’t think the issue of positions will cause problems. The economic emancipation for our people, the restoration of wealth and the restoration of Kenya’s dignity come first. Mudavadi and Wetang’ula come with a wealth of experience and top credentials.
Ruto has the energy and passion. The welfare of the Kenyan state, the need to revive the economy, to dignify our people and restore their wealth and to improve their standards of living will surpass anything else.
You have talked about Mudavadi and Wetang’ula. What has been the impact of the two joining Kenya Kwanza?
It has been great. We are doing well in Nairobi and Western Kenya. Ford Kenya and ANC have been very strong in Nairobi, Western, the Coast and Trans Nzoia. Their joining us added serious value and the two gentlemen. I am very happy with their messaging and commitment to reviving Kenya’s economy.
I am sure we make a good team and there is enough room for everybody to play their role. This country has a lot of work to be done. Inheriting and attempting to repay a Sh11.2 trillion debt is no mean feat.
