After 50, many women feel invisible. They are often overlooked and undervalued in society, in the media, and in their personal lives. But this is not the case for Dr Mary Okelo, who turned 80 in January, and says this is the "happiest she has felt".
“Welcome to my home,” she beams as we walk into her Nairobi’s Karen home. She apologises that her house is in disarray and empty, save for her bedroom, which is still intact. “I am so sorry. I moved to the village and I only just came in for some meetings."
“People had told me to sell and buy an apartment, but I have found that hard to do. This was my home for 40 years, it was a mistake to think I could move so suddenly,” she says.
Sunday Lifestyle had a chat with Dr Okelo, not just about her past but her life right now— the challenges and insights.
As we continue with our International Women’s Day series, Dr Okelo offers insights into the questions we all ask ourselves, no matter the age— What does it mean to live well? What are we still searching for? How do we create something bigger than ourselves?
She is a woman of firsts; the first ever woman bank manager in 1977, the founder of Kenya Women Finance Trust, the first woman advisor to the president of the African Development Bank (AfDB), the vice president of Women’s World Banking, a member of the External Consultative Gender Committee, World Bank, the founder of Makini Schools (1978) and the Kenya Private Schools Association. She is also now a lay Canon in the Anglican Church.
As she goes through what she calls a ‘new season’ of life and retirement, Dr Okelo is still learning.
“I just finished a course in mediation, so I am a certified mediator. I learn every day, that’s what keeps me alert,” she says.
I build bridges on broken-down relationships—in marriages, relationships between siblings and so on. Mediation is about bringing peace where there is conflict.
Two years ago, you moved from your Nairobi home of 40 years to a village in Kibos. Why the change and how is it going so far?
When I retired from running Makini Schools, I wanted to go back to the village, to the rural area where there is less traffic, more fresh air, and less hectic life. I am very happy to have returned to the countryside. Kenya has a very beautiful countryside. I moved to Kisumu County to a place called Kibos, at the foothills of the Nandi Hills. I watch and enjoy the fresh air from the Nandi Escapement.
I'm enjoying my village life, very much. If you love nature, the best place to go is upcountry; you see wildlife and vegetation. Although I worked in cities, I grew up in the village, so I'm just going back to my roots.
You retired in 2018. Did you have a general direction that you wanted your life to take after retirement, or one day you said, 'this is it, I'm done, I want to retire, and go take things slow'?
We all prepare. We know when you are young, you go to school. When you finish school, you work. When you finish working, you retire.
For me, it was a very smooth transition, and I'm enjoying it. But it is also continuing. I have always enjoyed helping people and solving people's problems if I can. I took a course in mediation after retirement, so I am mediating conflicts as well as mentoring, especially young people. We need to help them to understand where we are coming from, our issues, and how to solve them. It is just a continuation of what I was doing but in a different environment.
You have to prepare not to depend on your children. From a very young age, you have to learn to earn, save, spend and invest, so that by the time you retire, you have enough investments and enough savings to carry you through your retirement age. Retirement is not a very easy time, because the body also tends to weaken. It's [the body] high maintenance, and this means you have to eat well, exercise, you can’t do certain things that you could get away with when you were younger. It takes a lot of discipline. You can't eat junk food, because it will destroy you.
The older you get, the closer you get to your Maker. So you depend on Him, and God becomes your great friend. He guides you because He’s the one who has given you the long life. I always sing. “Twasema asante ….” God becomes real in old age.
Yes. That you don't have the same level of energy as you had when you were young. Even a small thing like jumping over something, one leg goes, the other one refuses. Sometimes at night, you get pains and aches, which you didn't expect. So basically try to live as well as possible when you are younger.
You've won many awards and accolades in the course of your career, and life. You are very accomplished. Is there anything that made you feel very accomplished and that you made a mark in this world?
Makini- (Dr. Okelo in red)
With P.L.O Lumumba, former director of Makini Schools celebrating Makini Schools success. Photo / Family Album
Many things have made me happy. For example, when the laws and policies that discriminated against women in getting access to financial products were removed, and I served on the task force, I felt gratified. Removing those barriers was a big breakthrough.
Also, when I was at Makini Schools, just seeing children excel gave me a lot of gratification. Seeing some of my teachers start their own schools—we have over 34 Makini schools teachers who today own their schools.
Then, when I was at the African Development Bank, one of the things I did was to prepare a woman in development policy paper which was to be adopted by 52 African countries.
It was a tough task, but we were able to get the policy to go through, and 52 African countries adopted it. I was very happy that at least the African countries had a policy that would guide them on women's inclusion.
Many women now say that it’s a fallacy that a woman can have it all. That something has to give and a woman has to make tough choices. What was the hardest part of being a working mother?
As women we have more responsibilities at home than men do, so one has to learn to balance. You cannot be a man, and there are times when one has to weigh between the career and the family responsibilities.
If there is a clash, I always recommend going for the family, because careers can come and go, but a family is permanent. When I was promoted to go to a different town, to Nakuru, and my husband and children were in Nairobi, I had to decline the promotion so that I could keep my family stable.
Careers and jobs will always come, but there are certain things you cannot sacrifice in a family, especially when you are nurturing your marriage or raising children. Those come as top priorities. So, even if you are in a very high career, a high position in your career, you may have to wait.
You had a very long career, starting from foreign affairs, the financial sector and then education. How did you find your voice? How did you ensure that you are not invisible? How did you ensure you were taken seriously?
Inclusion calls for understanding the norms, roles, and policies of the people who want to include you. So, if you are going to a boardroom, you have to understand the etiquette and rules.
Don't carry your own hang-ups, without realising that the place you're sitting in is a man's world. Women have to understand how a man's world works.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do, but you have to be careful also not to interfere with who you are.
Let me give my example. When I became the first woman bank manager, even the men didn't know how to relate to me. Some men would come in, and think since I was young, this is just a woman to flirt with. So, you have to be very careful, not to injure the man's ego, but at the same time, not to allow yourself to be abused.
Some would come and think, oh, this is a woman, maybe she's like my mother. You have to know how to manoeuvre. There's a lot of learning to do.
Some people say that while work happens in the office, decisions are made on the golf course, by mostly men. Is this assertion true?
Yes, it’s true. As a woman, remember those golf courses are manned by caddies. Those are very useful people. If you know them, they will share with you information about what is happening in the boys' clubs. The boys' clubs will always be there, but you have to find a way of getting to know what is happening.
I used to have caddies who would inform me what was going to happen. Waiters in hotels and clubs where the men visit have information that if you make friends with them, they can share.
Yes, like if you hear two people who are being mentioned for promotion, and you know they are not as competent as some of the people you know, you can intervene. You will say, ‘we hear so and so is going to be promoted, but if you look at the credentials of this person they are a better person who will add more value.’ I used this method a few times and it worked, and women would get promoted.
You have been vocal and fronted inclusivity and women empowerment, issues including on widows... What does feminism mean to you?
Dr. Mary Okelo with President Abdou Diouf of Senegal at the launch of an organization similar to KWFT in West Africa. Photo / Family album
For me, being a woman is just being a woman, and being a woman is using what strength you have to go forward, and in the process, helping other women to come up. Sometimes we are, as women, put in a privileged position, and it is our responsibility to see that we hold other women so that they too can come up, they too can realise their potential.
Do you think there is a difference between the feminism of the past and the one of Gen Zs, for example? What sort of feminism would you like to see? Do you think the modern feminism of “I don’t need a man” is pushing it too far?
Life is about balance. And if you upset that balance, you get hurt. We should just go back to balance things. Any extreme hurts. We have to listen to one another—men and women and accommodate one another. We have to listen and take what is good for both, and embrace it.
You told me earlier that some of the issues you note in the present generation is the me, me culture... Care to expound further?
Dr. Okelo receiving the African Development Bank Lifetime Achievement Award in Kigali Rwanda. Photo / Family album
It is our responsibility if we're in a position to help others, and we always are because we are gifted differently, to use those giftings to uplift others. The more you give, the more you get. The more you help other people, the happier you feel.
My life has always been about uplifting other people. That's why we started the Kenya Women Finance Trust. That's why I started a mentoring programme at Barclays Bank, to help women realise their potential and make a contribution to humanity.
When you see somebody you have helped doing well, it gives you a lot of joy. So you deny yourself that joy if you lock yourself with all the giftings and talents. What are you using them for?
These are some of the things that we need to be teaching children in schools—to be selfless, help other people, and work for the community.
We have so many children who are not working, and yet they could volunteer to serve the community. We need to inculcate the spirit of giving, the spirit of supporting one another, and the spirit of building one another so that we can create a bigger space for ourselves.
Wedding of Mr. and Mrs. Okello, 12th October 1968 in London. Photo / Family album
My husband was the head of the family. I had to respect that. At home, I was a wife. I was a mother and I was under the leadership of my husband. At work, I may have been a manager and a leader, but that was different.
I think our culture and my faith, tell us that the man is the head of the family. And so you have to submit. And I submitted. It was not a question, not debatable that my husband was the head.
Money breaks many marriages. I imagine at a particular time you may have brought in the bigger cheque. How did you deal with money as a couple?
Dr. Okelo at The Kenya Women Finance Trust launch with the then assistant minister of finance John Michuki and Michaela Walsh, founding president of Women’s World Banking. Photo / Family Album
Again, it's a question of balance. It's a question of respecting one another.
Our money was put in one pot. We did things together and we shared a common vision. We never had any conflict over that, because, first of all, I had a very understanding man. A very mature man. A gentleman. For us, things just flowed. You see, you have been joined together. So, how does it become yours and his?
When more investments came in, we worked together as a team and put God first. We didn't listen to people. I remember when I went to work at the African Development Bank there were delegations of people who came to my husband and they asked ‘how can you let your wife go to Abijan [she worked there for three and half years] and you are in Nairobi?’
You can't always listen to outside advice because the person who wears the shoes is the one who knows where it pinches most. I don't say this works for everybody but ours by the grace of God worked.
Every family has a formula that works for them. Ours was respect, love, and sharing.
We have put a lot of emphasis on the girl child but it is time we also see children as children. We must not neglect one at the expense of the other. There was a time when it was necessary to put more emphasis on the girls because they were more disadvantaged, but I think that equation has now been made and we should uplift both.
Give all equal opportunities, address their problems and counsel them. They are all our children and we depend on them to continue with our future.
I’m one of the people who has flourished because I had people who supported me. First, God, my parents, family, schools like Alliance where I schooled, my bosses and mentors have all made me walk in the light.
As women, we need to support one another. Men don't know about us the way we know each other. Therefore, if you know a competent woman and are in a position to recommend, do so that the woman gets an opportunity at the table or whatever job she's looking for. I always say we are each other's keeper.
Wherever you are, if there is an opening, call another woman and put them there. And help them. Because we have not had the same head start in life as the men have had.
Do you think there is anything wrong with a woman serving tea in the boardroom to his colleagues even as a leader?
You have to weigh the situation. Are they asking you to serve tea to demean you? If it is, then you have to decline. But if you are doing it because it comes naturally to you as a woman, then it's okay. You have to understand the dynamics of the boardroom. There's a lot of politics in boardrooms. You have to know the key person in that boardroom, whose word always carries the day.
And that's the person you need to have, whose ear you need to have. So if you have a burning issue, make sure that you have convinced that particular person. Because boards also carry passengers.
But for women, I always say, don't go there as a passenger or decoration. If you go there as a passenger, you will be frustrated because you will not make any impact. A board is a place where decisions that determine the fate of people are made. And for us women, as we keep looking for inclusion, we have to be very active, and we have to be very astute.
Each profession has a dress code. Lawyers dress in a particular way. Doctors, the same. The bank was the same. During my time, we had to wear blue, grey, and black colours.
Things have changed now. Dress according to the requirements of the profession you are in. But again, you cannot go to a place dressed inappropriately.
You can't go with the tumbo cut in a bank. Girls have to watch the way they dress because the way you dress speaks a lot about you. And if you don't dress appropriately, people can mistake you. You can't go to church with a very short mini skirt, exposing your body. It's not respectful.
You've had a very illustrious career and passed through so many milestones. I wonder, is there a time that you've ever had self-doubt?
Yeah, in the church I have, when I was made a Canon of the Anglican Church. In my career, most of the time I've been called to do the work. And therefore, I just have to make sure that I live up to the expectations. I learnt, got support, and did it.
When we were starting our school, we had a vision. And that vision prepared us to do certain things that we wanted to do. We started the school at a time when the standards of education were going down.
In 1978, the population of Kenya grew by five percent per annum. The classrooms were big. We went in there to see what we could do. We were so carried away by the vision that sentiments of self-doubt were irrelevant.
Well, I start with a word of prayer. Then I go into meditation. In the evening, I plan what I want to do the following day. As I told you, when you are old, there are certain things that you cannot afford to miss.
A good diet is a must. Exercise is important. I also have quite a lot of people with whom I interact with. I have to have some time to study. Even though I'm 80, I still have to learn. I also do Bible study.
Yeah, I have realised that I don't know enough. So I learn from people. I'm learning from you now. When I was busy working, I didn't have enough time to stop and learn, even just from nature.
So it is a time to learn, to reflect, but also to see how I can share the knowledge that I'm acquiring with other people so that they don't make the mistakes I did. So that they have at least some reference to something that can guide them and help them.
I swim every day except Sunday. I have somebody who comes in to do my massage. I have regular medical checkups. I enjoyed my working time, but I think I'm happiest now.
Well, I had designers whose clothes I wore in my younger years. Chanel, Christian Dior. I still wear Chanel No. 5 perfume.
Some new designers come in and are cool. I like to try them out. But now that I am at this age, you can see I'm wearing a loose dress. I can't wear very tight clothes. But I still like style. I like the finer things in life. For me, self-care is important. Because if I don't take care of myself, who will care for me?
The International Women's Day theme this year is to inspire inclusion and investing in women. Is there any advice you would like to give to women?
We have not arrived as women, so we have to continue to work very hard on inclusion- decision-making, resources and supporting one another. We need to vote for each other. The two-thirds gender rule is still pending. It has never been resolved.
We have a population where women are 52 percent— the majority. Yet we have no single woman president all these years. If we rallied behind our women, we should even have more women governors. We should have more women parliamentarians than men.
We should never fight each other and we must not talk badly about each other to the other sex. Men keep their secrets. But we tend to shout so much about each other's weaknesses.
That is undermining our strength. Unity is strength. Tribalism is very high in this country. We as women can work together to kill it. Because we are mobile and marry across tribes.
You lost your husband in 2004 through a road accident, and you said ‘it remains the most painful experience I have gone through.” How did you deal with the loneliness and alienation that comes with losing a spouse?
It was difficult. It still is, I guess you never fully overcome grief. When I became a widow, some friends kept away. You find suddenly, the people you depended on are no longer there.
But this is where faith comes in. He [God] takes care of you. He fills the gaps and makes you strong. You never feel lonely. There are a lot of people who also come in.
When you are single, there will always be people and vultures who may be interested in you. But I made a decision not to remarry. I have kept it.
Yes, my biggest dream is to have our continent free. Our continent has been enslaved in mind. We need to decolonise our minds. If we can be ourselves, and know who we are, we can turn our continent around, and reclaim our dignity as Africans.
We need not be seen as people who are sitting on resources for other people to come and take. But for all those talents that are out there to come back to Africa and build it.
As somebody who feared God. Yeah, because He is my creator. Also, a person who held a ladder for women and people to climb.
